Authors: Zephaniah Roe, Jack Sanderson, Dang Nguyen, Julian Huang, Todd Nief, Aryan Shrivastava, Chenhao Tan, Ari Holtzman
Abstract
If a model has some behavioral tendency, such as sycophancy or misalignment, and it is trained on its own outputs, will the tendency be amplified in the next generation of models? We study this question by training a series of models where each model is finetuned on data generated by its predecessor, and the initial model is seeded with some persona or belief. We test three settings: supervised finetuning (SFT) on instruct models, synthetic document finetuning (SDF) on base models, and direct preference optimization (DPO). In the SFT and SDF settings, traits mostly decay or remain constant so that further finetuning cycles do nothing. In rare cases when amplification occurs, it generally comes at the cost of coherence. In the DPO setting, trait amplification can reliably occur when a model is continually trained with a preference for its own outputs, but vanishes when models are reinitialized at each cycle. Overall, our results suggest that amplification most likely comes from continual post-training, and limiting this stage may be an effective defense. For non-RL finetuning, trait amplification is rare and very sensitive to data quantity, making it significantly less likely to occur accidentally. Finally, the amplification-coherence tradeoff serves as a natural deterrent against trait amplification.
Optimizers play an important role in both pretraining and finetuning stages when training large language models (LLMs). In this paper, we present an observation that full finetuning with the same optimizer as in pretraining achieves a better learning-forgetting tradeoff, i.e., forgetting less while achieving the same or better performance on the new task, than other optimizers and, possibly surprisingly, LoRA, during the supervised finetuning (SFT) stage. We term this phenomenon optimizer-model consistency. To better understand it, through controlled experiments and theoretical analysis, we show that: 1) optimizers can shape the models by having regularization effects on the activations, leading to different landscapes around the pretrained checkpoints; 2) in response to this regularization effect, the weight update in SFT should follow some specific structures to lower forgetting of the knowledge learned in pretraining, which can be obtained by using the same optimizer. Moreover, we specifically compare Muon and AdamW when they are employed throughout the pretraining and SFT stages and find that Muon performs worse when finetuned for reasoning tasks. With a synthetic language modeling experiment, we demonstrate that this can come from Muon's strong tendency towards rote memorization, which may hurt pattern acquisition with a small amount of data, as for SFT.
Every supervised fine-tuning run forces the same chain of decisions, such as learning rate, batch size, LoRA or full fine-tuning, how many epochs, which optimiser, and what data to feed the model. Each of these is typically rediscovered from scratch for every new model and dataset. Here we measure them under one instrument: a sweep that varies one lever at a time, and spans dense and mixture-of-experts models in two families (Qwen3 and Llama), on four real-world customer SFT datasets, for both LoRA and full fine-tuning. These datasets give a controlled testbed: each task carries an evaluation built with the customer, and its training data is produced by iterative supervised fine-tuning that refines model outputs until they pass that evaluation, so the supervised target is internally consistent and the task judge we report against is the criterion the data was built to satisfy. We ask how the optimal learning rate and batch size move with model scale, family, and data, and whether one selection rule transfers across them; what LoRA trades against full fine-tuning, and how its rank and alpha set what the adapter can learn; whether validation loss (or other metrics, such as loss landscape flatness) faithfully ranks downstream quality; whether post-training gains scale with model size and data volume, on a model ladder extended through mixtures-of-experts to 235B parameters; how many epochs to train before general instruction-following erodes; and whether a geometry-aware optimiser improves on AdamW. Each recommendation is paired with a measure of its uncertainty.
Charles O'Neill, Mudith Jayasekara, Harry Partridge
Emergent misalignment (EM) occurs when narrow finetuning causes a model to behave dangerously outside the finetuning task. Standard training signals can miss this shift, making reliable detection costly if it depends on repeated behavioral evaluation. We ask whether emergent misalignment can instead be detected from internal representations during finetuning. Using seven alignment-relevant traits encoded as linear directions in activation space, we track representational drift across training checkpoints in four open-source 7-9B LLMs. EM-relevant drift concentrates on a low-dimensional axis that explains 65.5% of the variance, revealing a geometric signature in the studied regime. A low-overhead monitor built on this drift profile detects dangerous checkpoints with 2.2% false negative rate, 2.9% false positive rate, and 0.990 AUROC on held-out perturbation types, outperforming unsupervised PCA and SAE baselines. Stress tests on two 14B models, longer finetuning runs, and misaligned starting points identify key deployment boundaries. These results position trait-space monitoring as a practical complement to behavioral evaluation for EM detection during LoRA-based finetuning, while showing that deployment across substantially different regimes may require recalibration.