Knowledge distillation generally assumes a strong-to-weak relationship where stronger teachers yield better students. In this work, we examine this assumption about distillation in large language model pretraining. By varying architecture sizes and training token budgets, we create strong-to-weak, same-level, and weak-to-strong teacher-student relationships, and study distillation's effectiveness under each. We find that the teacher need not be strong: with proper mixing of the language modeling and knowledge distillation losses, even small and undertrained teachers improve larger students. At the same time, a stronger teacher is not always better: pushing the teacher further, through more parameters or more training tokens, can saturate or even reverse the distillation gains. We further observe that distillation improves generalization (out-of-distribution and downstream performance) more readily than in-domain fitting. Together, these results challenge the common belief that distillation pretraining always requires a strong teacher.
Knowledge Distillation (KD) is a critical tool for training Large Language Models (LLMs), yet the majority of research focuses on approaches that rely solely on output logits, neglecting semantic information in the teacher's intermediate representations. While Hidden Layer Distillation (HLD) showed potential for encoder architectures, its application to decoder-only pre-training at scale remains largely unexplored. Through compute-controlled experiments, we benchmark HLD against logit-based KD and self-supervised baselines with Gemma3 3.4B as teacher and 123M and 735M students trained on up to 168B tokens from the C4 dataset. Our experiments show that HLD does not consistently outperform standard KD on downstream evaluation tasks. Nevertheless, we show that HLD can yield a systematic perplexity gain over KD across all shared-hyperparameter configurations, suggesting that a latent signal can be extracted, but a breakthrough may be needed for it to play a more significant role in LLM pre-training.
Large language model (LLM) post-training is essential for improving reasoning, adaptation, and alignment. Existing methods mainly follow two paradigms: reinforcement learning (RL) and on-policy distillation (OPD). However, RL relies on coarse-grained outcome supervision, resulting in difficult credit assignment and limited capability to acquire new knowledge. OPD, meanwhile, unconditionally matches teacher logits through KL divergence, which creates a dilemma: similar teachers provide little new knowledge, while substantially different teachers often yield ineffective guidance, largely restricting OPD to within-family distillation. We propose Distilled Reinforcement Learning (Distilled RL), which integrates teacher supervision into the RL objective to provide fine-grained guidance, selectively transfer new knowledge and avoid unconditional imitation. Distilled RL contains three components: reverse importance sampling with clipping, negative sample reset, and sequence-level geometric normalization. Through a concise and interpretable case study, we demonstrate that Distilled RL can effectively transfer previously unavailable knowledge from a teacher model to a student model. Extensive experiments across both within-family and cross-family distillation settings show that Distilled RL substantially outperforms standard RL and OPD in terms of both pass@1 and pass@k. Our code is available at https://github.com/597358816/Distilled-RL.
Knowledge distillation is a key technique for transferring the capabilities of large language models (LLMs) into smaller, more efficient student models. Existing distillation approaches often overlook two critical factors: the learning order of training data and the capacity mismatch between teacher and student models. This oversight limits distillation performance, as manifested by the counter-intuitive phenomenon where stronger teachers fail to produce better students. In this work, we propose Curriculum Learning-Guided Progressive Distillation (CLPD), a unified framework that explicitly accounts for both factors by aligning data difficulty with teacher strength. CLPD constructs an explicit curriculum by organizing training examples from easy to hard, while simultaneously applying an implicit curriculum over supervision signals by progressively scheduling teachers of increasing capacity. Our framework is modular and can be integrated into standard distillation algorithms with minimal overhead. Empirical results on the reasoning benchmarks demonstrate that CLPD consistently outperforms standard distillation, data ordering alone, and teacher scheduling alone across multiple settings. These findings highlight the importance of jointly considering data ordering and teacher capacity when distilling reasoning abilities into small language models.