Stable FP4 Training via Transposition-Invariant Block Quantization
Authors: Mehdi Rahimifar, Amin Darabi, Mehran Taghian Jazi, Xing Huang, Yao Wang, Zhijun Tu, Yufei Cui, Yunke Peng, +1 more
Abstract
Reducing training precision is a key lever for improving the e ciency of large language model (LLM) training, but pushing beyond FP8 to 4-bit oating point (FP4) remains challenging due to instability during optimization. We identify a fundamental source of this instability in existing microscaling approaches: scale inconsistency induced by tensor transposition. In conventional 1D block quantization, forward and backward passes assign di erent scaling factors to the same values after transposition, leading to biased and unstable gradient updates. To address this issue, we propose a low-precision training framework based on 2D block FP4 quantization, which enforces transposition-invariant scaling and preserves consistency between forward and backward computations. We further combine this with truncation-free scaling and stochastic rounding to control quantization error and maintain unbiased gradients. To handle the sensitivity of attention mechanisms, we adopt MXFP8 quantization for query and key projections, yielding a practical mixed-precision design. We evaluate our method on dense LLMs up to 7B parameters and a 30B Mixture-of-Experts model, trained on up to 100B tokens. Across all settings, our approach achieves stable end-to-end FP4 training and closely matches BF16 performance, with less than 1.3% degradation in perplexity and downstream accuracy. These results demonstrate that enforcing forwardbackward scaling consistency is su cient to enable practical FP4 training at scale, providing a simple and e ective pathway toward more e cient LLM training.
Why does full-pipeline FP4 training of large language models often diverge, even when forward activations and activation gradients remain stable? We address this question through a controlled study of MXFP4 quantization in transformer training, progressively enabling FP4 across forward propagation (Fprop), activation gradients (Dgrad), and weight gradients (Wgrad) while holding all other factors fixed. In full pretraining of Llama 3.1-8B on the C4 dataset, we observe that quantizing Wgrad is the primary driver of convergence degradation, whereas FP4 in Fprop and Dgrad alone introduces only modest additional token requirements. To interpret this behavior, we evaluate both structured and stochastic interventions under a controlled experimental setting. We find that stochastic rounding and randomized Hadamard rotations fail to stabilize training once Wgrad is quantized, whereas deterministic Hadamard rotations consistently restore stable optimization. These results suggest that FP4 training instability is driven by structured micro-scaling errors along sensitive gradient paths, rather than by insufficient stochasticity. We run experiments with native MXFP4 support on AMD Instinct MI355X GPUs, enabling controlled investigation of these effects without reliance on software emulation.
Large language models (LLMs) achieve remarkable performance but are expensive to deploy due to their enormous size. FP4 quantization, with formats such as MXFP4 and NVFP4, offers an appealing solution with native hardware support on modern accelerators. However, maintaining accuracy under FP4 precision remains difficult. A key bottleneck lies in scale optimization: existing methods tightly couple the quantization and dequantization scales, forcing both to conform to the discrete low-precision format required by hardware, such as E8M0 in MXFP4. Yet the quantization scale is never stored and need not obey this constraint, suggesting a significant untapped optimization space. In this work, we propose FOCUS, a post-training quantization framework with end-to-end scale learning for FP4 Optimization via Coupled-Relaxation and Dual-Granularity Scaling. Coupled-Relaxation Scaling (CRS) relaxes the tight coupling between quantization and dequantization scales with a learnable full-precision coefficient, enabling more effective optimization without breaking hardware compliance. Dual-Granularity Scaling (DGS) further refines the quantization scale at a finer sub-block granularity, allowing more precise adaptation to local weight distributions. Experiments across multiple LLM families and benchmarks show that FOCUS achieves state-of-the-art FP4 accuracy under both MXFP4 and NVFP4 formats, while introducing no additional inference overhead. Code and quantized models will be released at https://github.com/tencent/AngelSlim.
Recent NVFP4 pretraining methods mainly target transformer linear layers, leaving optimizer states, optimizer arithmetic and attention underexplored in 4-bit pipelines. This critical gap blocks stable full-stack 4-bit pretraining, as the three core modules exhibit unique numerical failure patterns: linear layers hit hard quantization noise limits with dimension-propagated error amplification; AdamW second moments are heavy-tailed non-negative values fragile to low-precision denominators; attention carries error-prone computation paths demanding strict forward-backward quantization consistency. We propose Full-Stack FP4, the first complete NVFP4 pretraining framework resolving all three stability bottlenecks via module-wise precision strategies. For linear projections, LoRA-SVD lightweight decomposition suppresses quantization noise and breaks the direct-quantization error ceiling, shrinking the linear-only loss gap from 1.40% to 0.61%. For optimizers, we design AdamW second-moment transformation for robust NVFP4 storage and fully support native NVFP4 Newton-Schulz iterations for the Root (Muon) optimizer. For attention, a mixed-precision scheme quantizes Q/K/V and backward dS while guarding vulnerable paths in BF16, paired with unified tensor reuse to sustain forward-backward alignment. We further analyze fast error accumulation in naive low-bit matrix multiplication and the extreme sensitivity of PV / dOV^T attention branches. All modules are plug-and-play with cumulative stability and efficiency improvements. Our 3B/64B-token pretraining validates near-BF16 performance with merely 1.47% loss gap, verifying feasible stable end-to-end NVFP4 LLM pretraining.