Rethinking Normalization Placement for LLMs: Post-Norm under Curriculum Depth Growing

Deep decoder-only Transformers often replace the original Post-Norm architecture with Pre-Norm variants because Post-Norm training is highly sensitive to warmup and learning rate under conventional initialization schemes. Although prior work has identified rank collapse and gradient vanishing as related symptoms, it remains poorly understood how causal attention creates high-similarity representations and why training dynamics fail to repair them. We give a two-stage analysis of Post-Norm rank collapse using token similarity as a scalar state variable. First, at initialization, causal attention acts approximately as a prefix-averaging operator that increases token similarity across depth, while the SwiGLU branch contributes only a smaller damping effect. Second, once training enters a high-similarity regime, growth of pre-normalization residual norms makes the RMSNorm backward factor contractive; under mild conditions, gradients to earlier layers decay geometrically. As a complementary result, we characterize the properties of a collapsed network: its best predictor is frequency distribution with relatively high loss floor, and gradients in collapsed layers vanish at frequency distribution. Experiments on 48-layer decoder-only Transformers trained on C4 dataset match the predicted initialization-time similarity growth and collapse-time gradient contraction, and show that collapsed runs stay near the predicted frequency loss. Together, these results distinguish the forward similarity amplification and backward repair incapacity in Post-Norm collapse, while also characterizing the behavior of collapsed networks.

Looped Transformers scale sequential computation by applying a compact stack of physical blocks for multiple rounds, increasing unrolled depth without increasing stored parameters. This reuse changes the residual-scaling problem: in an untied Transformer, each residual branch receives and applies its own parameter update, whereas in a looped Transformer one shared update aggregates gradients from repeated visits and is read back by those same visits in the next linearized forward pass. We formalize this tied-depth effect through a first-order perturbation bound controlled by a visit-alignment coefficient $κ_R$. The bound recovers the DeepNorm exponent when visits decorrelate, but in the conservative aligned regime it requires the exponent to increase from $1/4$ to $1/2$ as loop count grows at fixed physical depth. The resulting method, \textbf{DeepLoop}, keeps the Post-LN DeepNorm architecture and sets $α=(2N)^{1/2}$ and $β=(8N)^{-1/2}$ for unrolled depth $N$. On GPT-style looped language models at GPT-2 small and GPT-2 medium scale, DeepLoop is neutral when no physical block is revisited and improves validation loss and downstream accuracy once recurrent depth is activated. These results show that stable recurrent depth requires residual scaling rules that account for parameter visits, not only nominal layer count.

Normalization layers in modern large language models (LLMs) consist of a deterministic normalization operation and a learnable scale vector. While the normalization operation has been extensively studied, the scale vector remains poorly understood despite its ubiquitous use. In this work, we present a systematic study of scale vectors in LLMs from the perspectives of expressivity, optimization, and architectural structure. First, we show empirically that although scale vectors constitute only a negligible fraction of model parameters, removing them substantially degrades LLM pre-training. Our theory further shows that, in Pre-Norm architectures, scale vectors do not increase expressivity; instead, they improve optimization through a self-amplifying preconditioning effect on subsequent linear mappings. Second, we investigate the role of weight decay for scale vectors. By distinguishing Input-Norm and Output-Norm layers, we theoretically show that weight decay is beneficial for the former but harmful for the latter, due to their distinct roles in optimization and expressivity. Third, motivated by this understanding, we propose three lightweight and complementary improvements to scale vectors: branch-specific heterogeneity, improved placement around linear mappings, and magnitude-direction reparameterization. Both theory and experiments show that each improvement yields consistent gains. Finally, we combine these improvements into a unified scale-vector strategy and evaluate it through extensive LLM pre-training experiments on dense and mixture-of-experts models ranging from 0.12B to 2B parameters, across multiple optimizers and learning rate schedules, under industrial-scale token budgets. The unified strategy consistently achieves lower terminal loss than well-tuned baselines and exhibits more favorable scaling behavior, while adding negligible parameter and computational overhead.