What Matters for NVFP4 Training? A Comparative Study of Low-Precision Pretraining Recipes

Training large language models at 4-bit precision is critical for efficiency. We show that nGPT, an architecture that constrains weights and hidden representations to the unit hypersphere, is inherently more robust to low-precision arithmetic. This removes the need for interventions-such as applying random Hadamard transforms and performing per-tensor scaling calculations-to preserve model quality, and it enables stable end-to-end NVFP4 training. We validate this approach on both a 1.2B dense model and hybrid (Mamba-Transformer) MoE models of up to 3B/30B parameters. We trace this robustness to the dot product: while quantization noise remains largely uncorrelated in both standard and normalized architectures, the signal behaves differently. In nGPT, the hypersphere constraint enhances weak positive correlations among the element-wise products, leading to a constructive accumulation of the signal across the hidden dimension while the noise continues to average out. This yields a higher effective signal-to-noise ratio and a flatter loss landscape, with the effect strengthening as the hidden dimension grows, suggesting increasing advantages at scale. A reference implementation is available at https://github.com/anonymous452026/ngpt-nvfp4

Recent NVFP4 pretraining methods mainly target transformer linear layers, leaving optimizer states, optimizer arithmetic and attention underexplored in 4-bit pipelines. This critical gap blocks stable full-stack 4-bit pretraining, as the three core modules exhibit unique numerical failure patterns: linear layers hit hard quantization noise limits with dimension-propagated error amplification; AdamW second moments are heavy-tailed non-negative values fragile to low-precision denominators; attention carries error-prone computation paths demanding strict forward-backward quantization consistency. We propose Full-Stack FP4, the first complete NVFP4 pretraining framework resolving all three stability bottlenecks via module-wise precision strategies. For linear projections, LoRA-SVD lightweight decomposition suppresses quantization noise and breaks the direct-quantization error ceiling, shrinking the linear-only loss gap from 1.40% to 0.61%. For optimizers, we design AdamW second-moment transformation for robust NVFP4 storage and fully support native NVFP4 Newton-Schulz iterations for the Root (Muon) optimizer. For attention, a mixed-precision scheme quantizes Q/K/V and backward dS while guarding vulnerable paths in BF16, paired with unified tensor reuse to sustain forward-backward alignment. We further analyze fast error accumulation in naive low-bit matrix multiplication and the extreme sensitivity of PV / dOV^T attention branches. All modules are plug-and-play with cumulative stability and efficiency improvements. Our 3B/64B-token pretraining validates near-BF16 performance with merely 1.47% loss gap, verifying feasible stable end-to-end NVFP4 LLM pretraining.

Training large foundation models at low numerical precision is one of the most promising directions for reducing the compute and memory cost of modern AI. Recent 4-bit floating-point formats such as MXFP4 and NVFP4 can be applied to linear GEMM operations in LLMs, but their limited dynamic range introduces numerical instability that prior work addresses by stacking stabilization mechanisms, typically executed at higher precision and partially eroding the efficiency gains that motivate FP4. In this work, we argue that numerical format design is itself a first-class lever for stable FP4 training, and present the first systematic study of FP4 LLM pretraining on energy-efficient Huawei Ascend NPUs. We compare the recently proposed HiFloat4 (HiF4) format against both MXFP4 and NVFP4, holding one recipe fixed across all three formats across dense (OpenPangu-1B, Llama3-8B) and Mixture-of-Experts (Qwen3-MoE-30B) architectures and executing all linear and expert GEMMs in FP4. At matched storage --- NVFP4 and HiF4 both spend 4.5 bits per value --- the three formats differ far more in what they require before they will train at all than in final accuracy. HiF4 reaches a relative loss of 1.55% with no stabilization, below fully stabilized MXFP4 (1.79%) and below NVFP4 carrying the per-tensor scaling it cannot train without (2.00%); NVFP4 diverges under every combination of stochastic rounding and Hadamard transform we tried. Our results suggest that stable, accurate FP4 training does not require an ever-growing stack of stabilization techniques; it requires the right numerical format.