cs.LGSep 2, 2025

Fantastic Pretraining Optimizers and Where to Find Them

Authors: Kaiyue Wen, David Hall, Tengyu Ma, Percy Liang

Organizations: Stanford University

Abstract

AdamW has long been the dominant optimizer in language model pretraining, despite numerous claims that alternative optimizers offer 1.4 to 2x speedup. We posit that two methodological shortcomings have obscured fair comparisons and hindered practical adoption: (i) unequal hyperparameter tuning and (ii) limited or misleading evaluation setups. To address these two issues, we conduct a systematic study of ten deep learning optimizers across four model scales (0.1B-1.2B parameters) and data-to-model ratios (1-8x the Chinchilla optimum). We find that fair and informative comparisons require rigorous hyperparameter tuning and evaluations across a range of model scales and data-to-model ratios, performed at the end of training. First, optimal hyperparameters for one optimizer may be suboptimal for another, making blind hyperparameter transfer unfair. Second, the actual speedup of many proposed optimizers over well-tuned baselines is lower than claimed and decreases with model size to only 1.1x for 1.2B parameter models. Thirdly, comparing intermediate checkpoints before reaching the target training budgets can be misleading, as rankings between two optimizers can flip during training due to learning rate decay. Through our thorough investigation, we find that all the fastest optimizers such as Muon and Soap, use matrices as preconditioners -- multiplying gradients with matrices rather than entry-wise scalars. However, the speedup of matrix-based optimizers is inversely proportional to model scale, decreasing from 1.4x over AdamW for 0.1B parameter models to merely 1.1x for 1.2B parameter models.

Figures & tables

Appendix figures & tables191 assets

Supplementary material from the paper’s appendix.

Appendix

Explore similar work

May 9, 2026

Navigating LLM Valley: From AdamW to Memory-Efficient and Matrix-Based Optimizers

Training large language models requires optimization algorithms that are not only statistically effective, but also computationally and memory efficient at extreme scale. Although Adam remains the dominant optimizer for large-scale language-model pretraining and fine-tuning, recent work has revisited nearly every component of the optimization stack: adaptive moment estimation, decoupled weight decay, memory footprint, curvature approximation, sign-based updates, large-batch stability, low-rank gradient structure, and matrix-wise orthogonalized updates. This survey reviews optimizer design for large language models through a systems-and-optimization lens. We organize the literature into classical first-order optimizers, adaptive optimizers, memory-efficient variants, second-order and curvature-aware methods, sign-based and discovered optimizers, low-rank and projection-based methods, and matrix-based optimizers such as Muon. We also discuss benchmarking methodology, including hyperparameter fairness, scale dependence, wall-clock efficiency, token efficiency, memory overhead, and downstream evaluation. We argue that optimizer research for LLMs is entering a new phase: moving from single-algorithm speedup claims toward rigorous, scale-aware comparisons that jointly evaluate convergence, stability, memory, and implementation complexity.
Jun 15, 2026

Fantastic Pretraining Optimizers and Where to Find Them II: Hyperball Optimization

Matrix based optimizers such as Muon can substantially speed up language model pretraining, but their gains over AdamW are observed to shrink as model size and data scale grow when using standard constant decoupled weight decay. We propose Hyperball, a simple optimizer wrapper that addresses this issue. Given a base optimizer such as Adam or Muon, Hyperball sets the Frobenius norms of weight matrices and their corresponding optimizer updates to fixed constants. On Qwen3 style models up to 1.2B parameters, Muon Hyperball achieves 20--30% token equivalent speedup over weight decay baselines. Hyperball also improves learning rate transfer across widths and depths compared to decoupled weight decay. This method is motivated by prior theory showing that training with weight decay leads to an equilibrium weight norm that only depends on the training hyperparameters. Through this mechanism, the weight decay then decides the angular learning rate, i.e. how fast the direction of the weight matrix changes.
Oct 6, 2026

The Best Optimizer Depends on Batch Size

A plethora of new adaptive optimizers are designed to efficiently estimate and use minibatch gradient statistics to shape parameter updates, but they are typically benchmarked at a single batch size. Hyperparameter scaling rules promise to preserve performance as batch size and gradient noise change, suggesting that the best optimizer at one batch size should remain the best at another. We challenge this approach to developing and evaluating optimizers by showing: (1) no principled scaling rule for Muon works consistently across training settings, and (2) the best optimizer for language model pretraining changes with batch size even after extensive hyperparameter tuning. To understand these failures, we analyze a noisy quadratic model and show that the batch-size scaling rule that preserves performance is direction-dependent, shifting from square-root to linear as a direction's curvature-to-noise ratio rises. We further prove that gradient noise drives a bias-variance tradeoff in preconditioning that can reverse optimizer rankings across batch sizes, even under optimal learning rate and momentum tuning. Consistent with this, when we increase the batch size 16×16\times partway through language model pretraining, keeping small-batch updates in only the sharpest 0.001%0.001\% of directions removes up to 59.5%59.5\% of the resulting loss gap over the next 8%8\% of training, while a random subspace of the same size barely helps. Taken together, our results show that principled optimizer design must account for batch size and empirical benchmarking should be performed across batch sizes.