Rollout generation is a major bottleneck in Reinforcement Learning (RL) for Mixture-of-Experts (MoE) Large Language Models, motivating low-precision rollout acceleration such as FP8. As an emerging low-precision format, NVFP4 combines fine-grained scaling for accuracy preservation with native W4A4 FP4 GEMMs for higher throughput than FP8. However, we find that directly applying NVFP4 to MoE RL rollout is impractical. NVFP4 rollout with BF16 training collapses after roughly 150 steps, accompanied by rapidly growing rollout-trainer log-probability gaps. Through training-inference error analysis and controlled ablations, we identify activation error, rather than weight error, as the dominant source of FP4 RL instability: weights can be synchronized and aligned by a shared quantization-dequantization path, whereas activations are recomputed online and error is amplified by the coarse E2M1 grid. Therefore, to stabilize NVFP4 RL for MoE, we propose QUantization-error Alignment across Dual Sides (QUADS). On the trainer side, we introduce Asymmetric Quantization-Aware Training fake-quantizing weights while keeping activations unquantized for better alignment. On the rollout side, Residual Activation Compensation corrects high-error activation channels while preserving native W4A4 GEMMs. In our MoE RL experiments on several benchmarks, QUADS achieves BF16-level accuracy, improves average pass@1 by 21.49 points over naive NVFP4 RL, and delivers ~16% higher rollout throughput than FP8.
We present, to our knowledge, the first end-to-end FP4 RL post-training, in which both the rollout and training policies, including their forward and backward passes, operate at 4-bit precision. A systematic study reveals that the dominant source of degradation in FP4 RL is not training-side quantization error but rollout activation quantization: outliers stretch the dynamic range so far that a large number of activation values underflow to zero under FP4. Counterintuitively, restoring the training policy to higher precision while keeping the rollout in FP4 makes accuracy worse than full FP4 baseline, exposing rollout-training mismatch as the principal failure mode and ruling out standard pretraining-style fixes. We address this with Rollout Residual Quantization (Rollout-ResQ): a single residual correction term constrained to a hardware-friendly sparsity pattern, added only to the FP4 rollout matmul -- a lightweight correction that recovers most of the precision lost to outlier-driven underflow without inflating the rollout's compute footprint. On Qwen2.5-3B and Qwen2.5-Math-7B, Rollout-ResQ paired with the HiFloat4 (HiF4) format -- whose three-level hierarchical scaling preserves resolution under FP4's tight 4-bit budget -- closes the accuracy gap to BF16 from 4.9% to 1.1%, bringing fully quantized FP4 RL within striking distance of full precision. Applied to the open-standard MXFP4, the same recipe narrows the gap from 13.6% to 5.3%, revealing that FP4 format choice is a key factor that determines the ceiling on recoverable accuracy. Together, these results establish HiF4 as the enabling format for end-to-end FP4 RL post-training, and Rollout-ResQ as the activation-side mechanism that makes the gap to BF16 closable.
MXFP4 arithmetic can dramatically accelerate reinforcement learning (RL) post-training of large language models (LLMs), yet the quantization error introduces severe accuracy degradation. Existing work treats the quantization error as a monolithic noise term, missing the distinct mechanisms upon interpreting how quantization error damages training. We prove an exact three-way decomposition of quantization error and show how each component dominates a distinct RL training pathway. Our theoretical and empirical analysis decomposes the MXFP4 quantization error into three additive components: "scale bias" from power-of-two rounding, "deadzone truncation" from zeroing small values, and "grid noise" from rounding to the nearest 4-bit grid. Each component dominates a distinct RL failure mode: scale bias accumulates multiplicatively through the backward pass, affecting gradient accuracy; deadzone truncation degrades rollout quality; and grid noise raises the policy's entropy. We combine corrections that are RL failure mode-targeted but not component-exclusive: Macro-block scaling to reduce scale bias, Outlier Fallback recovers deadzone entries, but also partially reduces scale bias induced error, and Adaptive Quantization Noise (AQN) for controlling the policy entropy. On Qwen2.5-3B dense and Qwen3-30B-A3B-Base mixture-of-experts model, the targeted corrections recover BF16 accuracy to within 0.7% and exceed BF16 by +1.0% respectively.
Recent NVFP4 pretraining methods mainly target transformer linear layers, leaving optimizer states, optimizer arithmetic and attention underexplored in 4-bit pipelines. This critical gap blocks stable full-stack 4-bit pretraining, as the three core modules exhibit unique numerical failure patterns: linear layers hit hard quantization noise limits with dimension-propagated error amplification; AdamW second moments are heavy-tailed non-negative values fragile to low-precision denominators; attention carries error-prone computation paths demanding strict forward-backward quantization consistency. We propose Full-Stack FP4, the first complete NVFP4 pretraining framework resolving all three stability bottlenecks via module-wise precision strategies. For linear projections, LoRA-SVD lightweight decomposition suppresses quantization noise and breaks the direct-quantization error ceiling, shrinking the linear-only loss gap from 1.40% to 0.61%. For optimizers, we design AdamW second-moment transformation for robust NVFP4 storage and fully support native NVFP4 Newton-Schulz iterations for the Root (Muon) optimizer. For attention, a mixed-precision scheme quantizes Q/K/V and backward dS while guarding vulnerable paths in BF16, paired with unified tensor reuse to sustain forward-backward alignment. We further analyze fast error accumulation in naive low-bit matrix multiplication and the extreme sensitivity of PV / dOV^T attention branches. All modules are plug-and-play with cumulative stability and efficiency improvements. Our 3B/64B-token pretraining validates near-BF16 performance with merely 1.47% loss gap, verifying feasible stable end-to-end NVFP4 LLM pretraining.