Revisiting the Adam-SGD Gap in LLM Pre-Training: The Role of Large Effective Learning Rates
Authors: Athanasios Glentis, Dawei Li, Chung-Yiu Yau, Mingyi Hong
Organizations: University of Minnesota
Abstract
It is widely believed that stochastic gradient descent (SGD) performs significantly worse than adaptive optimizers such as Adam in pre-training Large Language Models (LLMs). Yet the underlying reason for this gap remains unclear. In this work, we attribute a large part of the discrepancy to SGD's inability to sustain learning rates comparable to Adam's much larger effective learning rates. Through empirical and theoretical analysis of LLM pre-training dynamics, we identify that training is characterized by small gradient norms and large weight-to-gradient ratios, an effect that becomes more pronounced with larger batch sizes typical in pre-training, necessitating such large effective learning rates. However, we find that output-layer gradient magnitudes become highly uneven across token classes, and that large gradient spikes frequently occur during training. Together, these effects severely restrict the admissible learning rate of SGD. Guided by this understanding, we show that simple clipping mechanisms that stabilize SGD at large learning rates enable it to recover most of Adam's performance. In our large-scale experiments, the validation loss gap between large-learning-rate SGD and Adam shrinks from more than 50% to only about 3.5% when pre-training a 1B-parameter LLaMA model with a 1M-token batch size.
The impressive performance of large language models (LLMs) arises from their massive scale and heterogeneous module composition. However, this structural heterogeneity introduces additional optimization challenges. While adaptive optimizers such as Adam(W) provide per-parameter adaptivity, they do not explicitly account for module-level gradient heterogeneity, resulting in slower convergence, suboptimal performance, or training instability. Existing approaches typically rely on manually tuned module-specific learning rates or specific optimization strategies, which are computationally costly and difficult to generalize across tasks or models. To establish a more principled approach, we first analyze the noise-damping behavior of Adam in high-noise modules and introduce \textbf{Module-wise Learning Rate Scaling via SNR (MoLS)}. MoLS estimates module-level SNRs to scale Adam updates, allowing automated module-wise learning rate allocation without manual tuning. Empirical results through multiple LLM training benchmarks demonstrate that MoLS improves convergence speed and generalization, achieving performance comparable to carefully tuned module-specific learning rates, while remaining compatible with memory-efficient training algorithms.
Learning-rate transfer can reduce the cost of training large language models: instead of sweeping learning rates at target scale, practitioners extrapolate from smaller runs. Existing approaches often assume that the optimal learning rate follows a log-linear scaling law in data scale and model size. We carefully examine and evaluate this scaling law. In our empirical study of GPT-2--style models from 22M to 707M parameters trained on 5B to 100B tokens, the optimal learning rate develops upward curvature at larger scales, leading to inaccurate extrapolation. We find that this curvature largely disappears when learning rates are replaced by effective learning rate (the step size in normalized weight space), and when data D extrapolation is used instead of model size N extrapolation. Next, we explain nonlinearity in scaling: weight-norm converges to equilibrium slower when optimal learning is small, requiring a larger step size to reduce the transient phase. Experiments with AdamH, which directly controls the effective learning rate, further support this explanation.
AdamW is the de facto optimizer for training large language models (LLMs), yet the theory behind it still lives mostly in finite-variance regimes. This is increasingly unsatisfying, as empirical evidence indicates that stochastic gradient noise in LLM pretraining is typically heavy-tailed. Recent work shows that sign-based optimizers such as Lion and Muon achieve sharp heavy-tailed rates, and that AdaGrad can also converge under heavy-tailed noise. However, no rigorous convergence theory for AdamW has yet been established in this regime. Can AdamW converge under the same heavy-tailed assumptions, or does its second-moment accumulator create a genuine obstruction? We formulate this as an open problem, prove a positive weighted-metric benchmark, and give a corridor lower-bound mechanism showing how denominator memory can hide large gradients.