Muon is competitive with AdamW in large-scale pre-training, but its operating regime in reinforcement-learning post-training remains unclear. We map this regime on ALFWorld, a sparse-reward agentic benchmark, using three group-based objectives and Qwen2.5 models from 0.5B to 3B. Under a shared KL and clipping recipe, matched optimizer comparisons and AdamW rate controls trace the usable step-size range. AdamW responds non-monotonically to rate, whereas fan-in Muon remains stable at a more aggressive effective step: at 3×10−5 it improves late success over an AdamW 10−6 baseline after correction across rate-metric tests. Its normalized-AUC effect is directionally positive but less uniform; the heuristic-matched lower-rate effect is less consistent, and tuned AdamW nearly matches high-rate Muon at 3B GraphGPO. High-rate Muon applies 3.53× AdamW's hidden-matrix update RMS; a full-budget RMS-matched control removes the late-success gain. Together, these results identify a recipe-level operating regime in which fan-in Muon supports a more aggressive stable effective step under shared KL and clipping: the margin is largest when optimization headroom remains and contracts near saturation, after AdamW tuning, or under magnitude matching. The scale-matched control ties this spectral effect to Muon's scale convention rather than establishing a universal optimizer ranking. Code is available at https://github.com/x66ccff/verl-muon.
Muon has emerged as an efficient alternative to Adam for pretraining, yet remains underused for fine-tuning. A key obstacle is that most open models are pretrained with Adam, and naively switching to Muon for fine-tuning leads to degraded performance due to an optimizer mismatch. We investigate this mismatch through controlled experiments and relate it to the distinct implicit biases of Adam and Muon. We provide evidence that the mismatch disrupts pretrained knowledge, and that this disruption scales with update strength. This leads us to hypothesize that constraining updates should mitigate the mismatch. We validate this with LoRA: across language and vision tasks, LoRA reduces the performance gap between Adam and Muon observed under full fine-tuning. Studies on LoRA rank, catastrophic forgetting, and LoRA variants further confirm that mismatch severity correlates with update strength. These results shed light on how optimizer mismatch affects fine-tuning and how it can be mitigated. Our code is available at https://github.com/XingyuQu/muon-finetune.
Muon has emerged as a strong competitor to AdamW for language model pre-training, yet its behavior at scale is sensitive to weight decay. Recent work has observed that, for Muon without decoupled weight decay, the spectral norm of weight matrices drifts upward over training. Through a decomposition of the spectral norm into a row-magnitude factor and a row-coherence factor, we identify the former as the empirical driver of this drift under Muon, while the latter remains well-behaved along the trajectory. Motivated by this diagnosis, we introduce Muown, a drop-in replacement for Muon that treats the row-magnitude vector as an explicit optimizer variable, updating it under the ℓ∞ geometry induced by the decomposition, while applying Muon unchanged to the remaining direction component. We prove that Muown attains the optimal non-convex rates in both deterministic and stochastic regimes under a dual norm aligned with the underlying geometries and with a stochastic noise coefficient that empirically remains below that of Muon throughout training. Across GPT-style pre-training on FineWeb-Edu with model sizes from 124M up to 2.7B parameters, Muown improves perplexity over Muon, SOAP, AdamW, and Lion. It also widens the plateau of near-optimal learning rates across model scales, reduces sensitivity to weight decay, and avoids the spectral norm drift at negligible step-time overhead when appropriately sharded.
The Muon optimizer has recently offered a promising alternative to AdamW for large language model training, leveraging matrix orthogonalization to produce geometry-aware updates. However, like all first-order methods, Muon can become trapped in sharp local minima. In this work, we present MONA, an optimizer that bridges Muon's orthogonalization framework with curvature-aware acceleration. MONA adds an acceleration term directly into Muon's gradient processing pipeline. This term is calculated from the exponential moving average of gradient differences. We provide a detailed convergence analysis for MONA, showing that the acceleration term introduces curvature-sensitive corrections while preserving Muon's spectral-norm regularization. Empirically, MONA achieves better convergence and downstream task performance compared to both Muon and AdamW across three scales of Mixture-of-Experts pretraining, spanning from 1B to 68B parameters, with the largest model trained on 1 trillion tokens. Furthermore, we conduct supervised fine-tuning on the MOE-68B-A3B model and evaluate it on general capability, mathematical reasoning, and code generation benchmarks, where MONA achieves SOTA performance.