Position: RL Researchers Need to Distinguish Between Solving Simulators and Using Simulators as a Proxy

In recent years, reinforcement learning (RL) has shown remarkable success in robotics when a fast and accurate simulator is available for a given task. When using RL and simulation, more simulator realism is generally beneficial but becomes harder to obtain as robots are deployed in increasingly complex and widescale domains. In such settings, simulators will likely fail to model all relevant details of a given target task and this observation motivates the study of sim2real with simulators that leave out key task details. In this paper, we formalize and study the abstract sim2real problem: given an abstract simulator that models a target task at a coarse level of abstraction, how can we train a policy with RL in the abstract simulator and successfully transfer it to the real-world? Our first contribution is to formalize this problem using the language of state abstraction from the RL literature. This framing shows that an abstract simulator can be grounded to match the target task if the grounded abstract dynamics take the history of states into account. Based on the formalism, we then introduce a method that uses real-world task data to correct the dynamics of the abstract simulator. We then show that this method enables successful policy transfer both in sim2sim and sim2real evaluation.

Learning to simulate human users in interactive settings could advance the training of agent assistants, evaluation of personalization systems, research in the social sciences, and more. Existing approaches generally do so by training a large language model (LLM) to match a single ground truth response, either by maximizing the log probability or by using a similarity reward. We instead propose Turing-RL: a Turing-Test-based reinforcement learning approach for training user simulator models. Turing-RL uses a discriminative Turing reward with an LLM judge to score how indistinguishable a generated response is from the real user's given the user's history, and the user simulator LLM learns to produce responses indistinguishable from what the user could have said with such rewards. Across two different domains--conversational chat and Reddit forum discussion--we find that Turing-RL consistently outperforms baseline methods on both LLM and human evaluation metrics. Our study suggests that optimizing for indistinguishability, rather than response matching, is effective for learning user simulators.

Multi-agent reinforcement learning for human-AI interaction typically relies on a single large language model to simulate user behavior. We show that this approach systematically fails to generalize, and trace the failure to simulator collapse: because the simulator LLM is mode-collapsed, an LLM policy trained against it overfits to narrow strategies that exploit the simulator's dominant mode, and such a policy transfers poorly to unseen simulators and real users. We formalize this collapse theoretically and propose two complementary solutions, one at inference time and one at training time. The inference-time solution, Verbalized Sampling, broadens the simulator's behavior by sampling from a verbalized response distribution, reducing mode collapse. The training-time solution, Co-Training, jointly optimizes the policy against a population of trainable simulators, preventing it from overfitting to any single simulator's mode. We validate both solutions on three multi-turn benchmarks: Persuasion for Good, $τ^2$-bench, and CooperBench. Verbalized Sampling improves held-out success by up to 9% over single-simulator RL, and Co-Training pushes gains further to 14%; the human study shows similar gain on real users. Both solutions preserve the policy diversity that collapses under single-simulator RL. To support further work in this direction, we release SCOPE, an open-source framework for Population Co-Training multi-agent RL. More broadly, our results suggest that the diversity of the training environment, not only the policy, is critical to the generalization of multi-turn RL to real-world deployment.